For this conversation, I’m joined by Michael Weinstein, founder and president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), a nonprofit established in 2005 to safeguard the constitutional separation of church and state within the U.S. military. A 1977 honors graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy, Weinstein spent over a decade in the Judge Advocate General’s Corps before serving in legal roles within the Reagan White House, including work on the Iran-Contra investigation.

In founding the MRFF, Weinstein set out to confront religious coercion and institutionalized favoritism toward Christianity across the armed forces. Since then, he has become one of the most prominent critics of rising Christian nationalism within the military and broader federal institutions. Under his leadership, the MRFF has challenged everything from the Department of Veterans Affairs exclusive promotion of Christian materials to the Trump administration’s so-called “Anti-Christian Bias Task Force,” which Weinstein decries as a dangerous step toward theocratic authoritarianism.

With over 94,000 clients, the MRFF continues to serve as a vital bulwark against religious extremism across national security agencies, active-duty units, and veterans’ services.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Your organization has grown from a Department of Defense (DoD)- focused initiative to one that spans all 18 national security agencies, representing a remarkably diverse client base—religiously, institutionally, and demographically. What does that expansion say about the scale and persistence of the issues you address within the U.S. military and national security establishment?

Michael Weinstein: While we began focusing on the Department of Defense, we now represent clients across all 18 national security agencies.

This includes well-known entities like the CIA, NSA, DIA, and FBI. We also assist clients in the U.S. Coast Guard, which falls under the Department of Homeland Security, and the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy, under the Department of Transportation.

Additionally, we work with the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), especially given recent developments. As a veteran, I can attest to the importance of this work. Since our inception, we’ve represented over 94,000 individuals seeking assistance.

Approximately 95% of our clients identify as Christians, with about three-fourths being Protestants of various denominations and the remaining one-fourth predominantly Roman Catholic. We also represent individuals from every other religious and non-religious tradition—humanists, secularists, atheists, agnostics.

To the best of our knowledge, we currently represent around 18% of all active-duty Muslims in the military. Interestingly, we’ve had clients from every religious orientation except Scientology. We haven’t had one of those yet. I’m still waiting for Tom Cruise to call me.

Jacobsen: What criticisms has the MRFF raised regarding the Trump administration’s “Anti-Christian Bias Task Force” announced in February?

Weinstein: On February 6, President Trump signed an executive order establishing a task force to eradicate what he termed “anti-Christian bias” within the federal government. The task force, led by Attorney General Pam Bondi, reviews federal agencies for policies and practices perceived as discriminatory against Christians.

While the initiative purports to protect religious freedom, many—including the MRFF—are concerned that it may privilege one faith, potentially undermining the constitutional principle of church-state separation.

The MRFF views this move as reminiscent of historical instances where governments have sought to enforce religious conformity, raising alarms about the potential for increased religious coercion within federal institutions.

The Germans did the same thing with their citizens when the Nazis took over—children ratting out parents, grandparents, neighbours, teachers, coaches, or friends—anyone who was not toeing the party line. So we saw it happen again on February 6. We immediately saw the impact across the Department of Defense—all branches—and in the intelligence agencies I mentioned earlier. The only place we had not seen it yet was the VA.

Then Doug Collins, a former member of Congress who has a long history of attacking me and our foundation, issued an edict. He is, or was, a lieutenant colonel chaplain in the Air Force. This message was sent out at 52 minutes past the hour—on a Thursday, I believe—though it may have been a Wednesday. I forget the exact date. The directive was sent to all VA employees, making it clear that they would “root out anti-Christian bias.”

This comes from plans to eliminate between 60,000 and 80,000 VA jobs. Look, I’m a veteran. I receive all of my health care through the VA. I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico. My kids are also veterans, and they receive most of their health care through the VA. So, while this was not unexpected, just like getting hit by a foul ball at a baseball game—it still hurts. It is painful and disgusting to witness.

The irony is that the VA is, if anything, already pro-Christian. I happened to be at my VA Medical Center—Raymond G. Murphy Medical Center in Albuquerque. It is a large facility. I walked into their version of a Walgreens or Target. Every hospital has one—it is called the Patriot Store. You can buy sundries and sandwiches at a small convenience store.

For years, a wall inside that store has been filled exclusively with books from a company called Choice Books. And it is entirely Christian content—nothing but Christian material. So, over three years ago, on April 12, 2022, we filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. We wanted to see the contract the VA executed with Choice Books—how large it was and what the terms were.

They are now more than three years overdue in responding. We have contacted them repeatedly, asking, “Where is it? We want the contract.” They are well beyond the legally allowed response period. So now we are preparing to sue them—vigorously, aggressively, and swiftly—in federal court. We want to see that contract.

In a recent press release, we included a photo of that wall to demonstrate the VA’s pro-Christian bias. Many VA facilities also have chapels that display permanent Christian symbols. One particularly notable example is the VA Medical Center in Phoenix, Arizona.

It looks like a chapel—specifically, a Catholic chapel. However, VA regulations are clear: Chapels must remain religiously neutral, except during a specific worship service. The VA, like all the other agencies we have been fighting against, is an example of persistent pro-Christian bias.

We are now in our twenty-second year of this battle. The Military Religious Freedom Foundation has been active for about twenty years, but my wife and I spent the first twenty-two months fighting this issue as individuals before we formalized the foundation more than two decades ago. This is a textbook example of an agency captured by Christian nationalism—the ideological jet fuel that ignites, sustains, and gives life to this bias.

Christian nationalism seeks to replace democracy with a brutal form of far-right Christian theocracy—one in which even teenagers who speak out could be executed. The penalties for defying their doctrine are absolute. It is pulled directly from the pages of The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood.

When Doug Collins issued his edict, we were inundated with people asking for help. I responded immediately. I issued an open letter and recorded a video message. Doug Collins is a vicious, unconstitutional Christian nationalist. He promotes a hateful, prejudiced vision of Christianity that aligns with extremist movements such as the New Apostolic Reformation and the Seven Mountains Mandate. We started seeing its political rise when John McCain made the catastrophic mistake of selecting Sarah Palin—who was affiliated with that movement—as his running mate.

So again, while we were not surprised, it does not mean it hurts any less. Collins’s directive told employees to submit any evidence of “anti-Christian bias”—and the implication was clear: if you know of something and do not report it, and we find out later, you will be punished anyway. As a result, we have doctors, nurses, medical technicians, administrative staff—people across the VA—calling us in fear for their jobs, terrified for their families’ futures.

And I have said this many times: I know people must live their lives. They must go to work, buy groceries, raise their children, and stay connected with their communities. But this is not business as usual.

The United States has become a fascistic state. We are the bad guys now. This whole “anti-woke,” anti-DEI push—along with their fabricated task forces, like the one to stop “anti-Christian bias”—is a cover.

The same tactic is being used under the guise of combating antisemitism, which now, in practice, often means refusing to allow any defense of Palestinian human rights. The implication is that if you criticize anything related to the situation in Gaza, the West Bank, the actions of the IDF, or Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government, you are labeled antisemitic.

It is all being fused into a single, toxic stew of hate, fascism, and authoritarianism. But I want to make one thing clear to the readers of this publication. There is no “anti-Christian bias” in the VA, the U.S. military, national security agencies, the Coast Guard, or the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy. What does exist—and what is noxious, poisonous, twisted, and treasonous—is malicious Christian nationalist bias.

As I mentioned, look at the reading material available in those little Walgreens- or Target-style stores inside every VA hospital. You will find one voice and one voice only: Christian. We will soon be litigating against the VA over this, as they continue to refuse to release the contract with Choice Books under our FOIA request.

Jacobsen: As a side note, from your perspective as a former military officer and legal professional—what would typically happen if someone at a high level in government used end-to-end encrypted apps like Signal to communicate with senior editors at major publications, and those communications were subsequently leaked?

Weinstein: That would likely lead to a general court-martial. In such a case, it would be tough for the accused to avoid ending up in Leavenworth or another military prison. Someone like Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth—who is closely associated with Christian nationalism and is, by many credible accounts, a misogynist and an alcoholic—would be facing serious charges if he were still in uniform and did what has been alleged.

If anyone else had done what Hegseth is accused of—under any circumstances—there would have been a general court-martial, likely followed by criminal proceedings. Right now, the Pentagon is in chaos. Mid-level officers and civilian employees are desperately trying to expose their superiors for secretly supporting diversity, equity, and inclusion—or, as they call it, “wokeness.”

You may have seen the incident during Hegseth’s visit to my father’s alma mater, the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. To avoid provoking him, they removed memorabilia celebrating Jewish female graduates from the Jewish chapel. They even pulled nearly 400 books by Maya Angelou and others from the shelves. But Mein Kampf? That was allowed to stay.

This is the same anti-diversity, anti-humanist trend we saw decades ago—exactly the opposite of the inclusive vision that made Star Trek so revolutionary: a multi-racial, multi-faith, and even multi-species crew, like Spock, representing the strength of diversity.

Hegseth is a disaster, and those who support him are part of the problem. Some of them have recently been fired, but that is not enough. I refer to this situation as the “Thirteenth Stroke Theory.”

Jacobsen: What is that?

Weinstein: It is a metaphor used in legal arguments: the thirteenth stroke of a broken clock casts doubt not only on that hour but on everything that came before it. That is the stage we are at now. This is what we know about—what has surfaced in the media.

When the leadership of the Department of Defense—the organization that oversees the most lethal military force ever deployed—is saturated with Christian nationalism, the implications are catastrophic. Hegseth is just one example. But none of this should come as a surprise.

Hitler did not fail to telegraph what he was going to do. He wrote Mein Kampf. Christian nationalism’s equivalent of Mein Kampf is Project 2025, co-authored by Russell Vought—the former and current Director of the Office of Management and Budget, which, during my time in the Reagan White House, was considered the most potent part of the executive branch. Project 2025 is nearly 1,000 pages long, and they are executing it with chilling precision.

The Democrats, in contrast, appear utterly unprepared. I’ve said this before: I love Michelle Obama, but when she said, “When they go low, we go high”—no. No. When they go low, we go just as low to meet them where they are. We fight back legally, ethically, and morally—but we do fight back. We do not float above the battlefield and pretend civility alone will save democracy.

Right now, the Democrats look spineless and disorganized. My Congresswoman, Melanie Stansbury, held up a small sign during the State of the Union that said, “This is not normal.” She thought it was a civil rights moment. It was not. That is not how we fight back. That is not resistance. That is feckless adherence to hopeless tactics. The Democrats lost this round—and maybe the entire game—by failing to act with urgency and strength.

We now have a petulant, mentally unwell individual—essentially a two-year-old with unchecked power—commanding the U.S. military, our nuclear arsenal, and the entire executive branch. Republicans know this. They damn well know how dangerous it is. But many remain silent—either because they think they can benefit from the chaos through stock manipulation or increased donor support or because they are simply afraid.

Some are afraid that if they speak out, Trump will call them out publicly—and that could end in violence. We know something about that. We are threatened around the clock at MRFF. We are already on the “Enemies From Within” list.

Two years ago, a magazine distributed on Capitol Hill helped advance an amendment in the House version of the National Defense Authorization Act for FY2024 that would have made it a felony—under the Uniform Code of Military Justice—for anyone in the military to contact us for help. We spent six months fighting it, working with Senate Democrats to strip that provision before the bill reached President Biden’s desk in late 2023.

So yes, people are scared. But if anyone still wonders how a scientifically and technologically advanced society like Germany could have allowed Hitler and the Nazis to take over, I give you America in 2025. Hitler’s National Socialist movement only had about 7.9% support initially. It didn’t matter.

Remember, in the military, even if you are the most junior officer—a second lieutenant in the Marine Corps, Army, Air Force, or Space Force, or an ensign in the Navy—you outrank roughly 90% of the entire military because you are commissioned.

You know most of the military is enlisted. That’s why even the junior officer outranks the senior enlisted person. It is just the structure. Our country is now being controlled by an aggressive, fast-moving, well-funded, and well-organized poison—Christian nationalism. I mentioned this earlier. If you dig deeper, you will encounter movements like the New Apostolic Reformation and the Seven Mountains Mandate. These people have been planning this takeover for a long time.

These movements have been strategically organized since at least the early to mid-1980s, and arguably as far back as the 1940s and 1950s, with groups like The Family or The Fellowship. They are now in control.

Take what happened at the VA recently—the directive to “root out anti-Christian bias.” That is like declaring a mission to eliminate unicorns from VA hospitals. Unicorns are mythical creatures. Anti-Christian bias is a myth, too. It simply does not exist. What does exist is persistent pro-Christian bias, and it runs deep through the military, the Coast Guard, the Merchant Marine Academy, and the Maritime Service.

Jacobsen: What can people do in the next three to six months that would constitute real, effective activism?

Weinstein: I get asked this all the time. First, people need to stop operating on autopilot—as if the only goals of life are to circulate blood, reflect light, and breathe. That is not enough anymore. As I told our folks in a recent video, get off your butts. There is a quote—I forget who said it—but it goes something like: “What we think, know, and believe is of little consequence. In the end, all that matters is what we do.”

So: protest. Speak out. Make your voice heard. Donate. Support organizations—like ours and others—that are actively fighting this rise of authoritarianism cloaked in religion. You cannot just sit back and hope someone else will handle it.

At some point, your children—or your children’s friends, or your grandchildren—will ask: “What did you do to stop this?” That same question was asked after V-E Day (Victory in Europe) and V-J Day (Victory over Japan). People asked: “What did you do during the war?”

So you write a check, use your credit card, make a sign, and stand up. You join a protest. You go to town hall meetings and speak your mind. You refuse to be intimidated into silence.

I often describe it as being like a tarantula on a wedding cake. That’s what it feels like. We have lived that way for a long time. We live with bodyguards, elite-level defense dogs, firearms, security cameras, and an incredibly close relationship with local law enforcement. We do that because the work matters. You cannot afford to sit back and do nothing anymore.

You also cannot be focused only on financial security—asking “where my money comes from”—while democracy is under siege. We have never seen so many high-ranking military officials reaching out to us. These are not just 18- or 19-year-old enlisted troops or junior officers fresh out of the academies, ROTC, Officer Training School, or Officer Candidate School. That’s been flipped.

Particularly in the VA, most of the people contacting us now are civilians, and many are seniors. That tells you something. So people need to act—whether it is to leave a record of integrity for their children or their children’s children or simply to be able to look their neighbors in the eye and say, “I tried to stop this.” The difference between now and 1933? There was no social media back then. Now, we have the tools to resist publicly and collectively.

You need to act—not just because it is the right thing to do—but because it is the only thing to do. And I’ll say it one more time: The quote goes: What we think, know, and believe is of little consequence. All that matters is what we do.

Jacobsen: Mike, thank you again for the opportunity.

Weinstein: Thank you—grateful. Have a great evening.